SPEAKER_01 0:00

Don't just network uh like if you're if you're a business owner and you're in NIA or something like that, yes, network like that and talk about that you're hiring because good people know good people.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

All right, everybody, welcome to another episode of Connections That Matter, where we have awesome conversations with Northern Colorado's best networkers, and we find out some tips that that makes them successful. Today, I have somebody who can truly help you scale your business, make sure that you're enjoying your business. We have Tammy Parker from Unicycle Business Consulting on the show. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Um pretty big lead-in. I can make you feel happy in your business. I mean, I can help.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Well, I mean, I'm just saying every time I've had an HR problem, things are not happy, right? But you make you have like a 911 emergency. You can you can put out you can help put out fires. You can make sure I'm hiring the right people.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, we have um people give us gifts that say dumpster fire response team a lot. And um, yeah, we show up and help smooth things over for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Aaron Powell Is it is it always a big panic? Um it's I mean, an incident happens and then they got to call Tammy. I need a dumpster fire response.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

People either hire us for a panic or for hiring, because hiring's been so, so tough. Um Unicycle was in business before 2020, but as you know, since 2020, it's been, you know, there's just so much going on that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Aaron Powell Well, let's get into that because I've uh I've I've heard two things. Uh job seekers who are just it's impossible to even get to somebody to interview you. Um and then job um people who are posting jobs just struggling to find candidates. So how can we help the two meet each other better, Tammy?

SPEAKER_01 1:52

It is so hard. Um, because I know that applicants are getting ghosted and I know that employers are getting ghosted. And even Unicycle, we have a process when we're doing interviews for a client where the applicant gets to pick the time of their interview on our calendar, they get a text reminder, they get an email reminder, and we still get ghosted about 50% of the time for interviews.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Like they just are just applying, but they're not actually that's yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Um, so it's my I guess my real takeaway is that's the reality right now for everybody, and everybody's frustrated, and rightfully so, right? Um I think just as an applicant, I would say be communicative. Just thank you so much for inviting me. Um I scheduled my interview, I'll be there on Tuesday. Whatever you can do to make sure they know you're coming, do it, right? Um, or to make yourself stand out. Um, but it's tough. And we literally have over two million less workers in the workforce than we did pre-2020.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

So um, so there are less people too.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

What are you seeing in northern Colorado? Um, what's the you know, what's the current climate and any tips on how to navigate that climate?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Well, we definitely felt the market shift to a like if you think of like a home buyer's market and a home seller's market, if you think of the job market the same way, right? Uh and an employer's market or an applicant's market, we definitely felt it shift to the applicants market in 2020 or after 2020. And it has just recently shifted the other way. Now it's back to the employers. Um we're we're seeing more applicants now, actually. Um, and it's because of layoffs and things in the economy and people needing to change their income. And so they're looking for a a raise or a promotion through applying outside of their employer. Um, so it's definitely shifted. But I've, you know, I've done this for 32 years. I've worked through all the ebbs and flows of of hiring and HR and all that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

So do uh do the companies how how many of them know that they want, and then how many think they know what they want, but uh you help them um dial it in a little more?

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Um it really is hard for a small business owner to articulate what they what they want a lot of the time. Um, and something that we specialize in is and that I like teach little classes on is hiring for the intangibles, hiring for fit, focusing on what you can't train is my best advice. Um, you're gonna want to train them in your procedures, your CRM, your whatever the job needs, right? You're gonna need to do some training. But hire for fit first. You know, are they coachable? Are they smart? Do they seem engaging? Are they self-driven? Those kinds of things that that's my first best advice. But also, um so many small employers come to me and say, What? But I'm looking for a unicorn. And then I have to explain that unicorns don't exist, but stallions do. Okay. So if you're watching for the unicorn, like, you know, and I really would love it if she bring in cookies once a week for everybody. And and you know, my grant my great aunt Betty makes the best chocolate chip cookies. And so, really, if you could find somebody who loves to bake and bake for other people, along with all these actual skills for the job, and you know the the list can be incredible. And I have to talk about unicorns and that unicorns don't exist, and you'll let a stallion walk right by you if you're waiting for your unicorn.

SPEAKER_00 5:40

So what are some ways that you can find your stallion? Is it writing a really good job description? Is it uh your website that's your careers page and highlighting company values? How what's a what's a filter that you could put out there to make sure that you're getting more of your stallions?

SPEAKER_01 5:58

A really good job description is important. Clarity in what they're in the role, whether the after they're hired, so important as well, right? But but clarity about what the role actually is is so helpful for them and for you. But then you need to make sure your ad is not too s too long. Well, like people want to know about the company, right? What's our culture? And I recommend you put that at the top, a few lines, right? But job descriptions, I I had somebody send me a seven-page job description this week, last week. And you need to know something like 89% of people applying for jobs are doing it on a phone. So they're not reading your job description anyway, all the way. So, what do you want it to say? What do you want them to know in a very small amount of data first? And then I recommend you send them a comprehensive job description after they're applying or you know, before their interview. Thank you. We're so excited to meet with you. Here's the full job description for the role before we meet in case you have any questions, something like that. So a really good comprehensive job description, but an ad that's going to get you traction on all of the services, no matter which one. It yeah, seven. I don't want a two-page job description going on an ad, much less seven pages.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

So how much does networking impact uh getting the right candidates? Um sometimes it's I would imagine who you know that gets you the right introduction, or somebody might not be officially on the job market, but through the right connection.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Um networking's really important. Um and don't just network uh like if you're if you're a business owner and you're in NIA or something like that, yes, network like that and talk about that you're hiring because good people know good people, right? Somebody's aunt might be looking for a job, or their spouse might be passively looking for a job and wishing for something, put it out in your networking, but also network with your internal staff as well and ask them who they know. Because again, good people know good people. And if you have a referral from internal, somebody on your team brings in their cousin or their brother-in-law, and you hire them, don't just hire them for that reason, but you choose to add that person to your team, you have two people more invested in them being successful under your roof, right? They're whoever brought them in is gonna talk to them about the culture and the people and how to handle things, but they're gonna basically help you set that person up for success because their career name or their, you know, there's a little more teeth in the game for another person on the team. Um, it's it's really great to hire people people know.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

And then your role, you come in, um, a lot of people don't hire because it's too much of a gauntlet to go. And so they'll just their business will just stay whatever size it is, but not skip. Like grow is kind of scary, Tammy. I mean, it's like very scary. Hey, I understand and I'm comfortable, like I do the things the way that I do them, but as you're growing or hiring, uh maybe a sense of less losing control of that.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Um what how would you advise a business owner who wants to grow but is maybe fearful of the first couple steps?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

First, I would have them most people when they're ready to grow, they think they need to hire the top role in the business that does the money-driving thing. And that may not be what they need today. So if you're a solopreneur and you're gonna hire your first employee or you're gonna hire your second or third, often you think, this is how I make my money. I need somebody who does this. But that may not be what you need to grow next. So think about your own time and what your money what your time is worth financially to the business. And then make a list of all the tasks that you do and think, do I want to spend that much money to have that task done? So let's say a business owner can on average drive $300 an hour into their business when they make a sale or something, right? If they do their own business development. Um, do you want to spend $300 an hour to have the Christmas cards addressed? Because that doesn't seem like a terribly responsible decision. So often I end up helping people decide what they need. And it's often, if it's your second or third employee, somebody to do administrative things. Well, that's a very different price tag.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Right. And I had a CPA come to me like that thinking she needed a CPA. She did not need another CPA. She needed somebody to she needed to quit paying CPAs to do administrative tasks and take stuff off of their plate so that they were only doing billable work. And that and that eased the pain, you know, the financial concern, right? Of what do we need? Often one of the first things you need is support staff. Now they're not going to drive any revenue. But every task that you're paying higher dollar to get completed, is it really worth $50 an hour or $30 an hour? No, probably not.

unknown 11:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah. I think that's a good point, because like hiring a staff member seems like such a big step, but maybe it's just a software or uh maybe it's a virtual assistant, uh, maybe it's a contractor or a W-2 employee. How do you how do how do you know what's the right step?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Well, you have to look at the total cost. Everybody thinks employee first or contractor first, right? So uh you need to think of the total cost of actually employing somebody. And um, depending on your size, you know, there as you grow in employee numbers, there's more costs attributed to like if you have over 10 employees, this kicks in. If you have over five, you have to offer a retirement plan. There's all these little things, right, that go into it. But if you're curious and you think you're gonna hire somebody, say, for 50 grand a year, you need to plan to spend 30% more than that 50 grand to be an employer. And that's the bottom percentage number to plan ahead for. So, you know, getting really true about the numbers and then getting really true about the needs can help us find the right solution for for the for any small business, really. Um, I have clients that have both W-2 employees and virtual assistants. Um, I happen to support a law firm in Phoenix that their support staff is all outsourced out of country and they've made it work and they have a fully remote environment, and they um even their attorneys are fully remote. They do have an office building, but um they they have they're an example when people talk to me about VAs and things. Um I can point to a business that's really made it work. Their paralegals are are VAs as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Would you say that's the exception, not the norm, though? I would.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Yeah, it's not easy, right? And this is a large firm. They have five locations in Phoenix. So this is not a small staff.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

What uh what do you see as the breakdowns um if they don't do it the right way? Like what uh um people just hire, think it's gonna fix everything and it doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

I think people think they can call some anybody a contractor and and that that's real and that's their get out of dealing with the Department of Labor or the IRS, and that's simply not true. You have to structure a contractor carefully. Um, I do have folks who don't have any W-2 employees who ask who pay me to read their contracts. Um, one of the biggest pitfalls if somebody's an employee or a contractor is a contract without an end date.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Ongoing, that no, that's that's one of the things the Fed is like, mm-mm, ongoing, that's an employee. Right? So you just there's lots of minutiae and detail. One of the other big things that an employer can do or a business can do if they're hiring contractors is insist that their contractors have a registered entity to pay them. Uh so you you're not just writing a check to Tammy Parker, you're writing a check to Unicycle Business Consulting, for example, right? Um that's one of the things that makes them a true contractor. Um I have another client that requires insurance, proof of insurance from their contractors as well.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

So some some things that you could prove to the government, I hired an entity, not a person, um, are some of the big issues. But there's more, I'm afraid to say.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

But well, uh, I think that's uh well something I was given in business. Like there's things that you know that you don't know. Um and then there's the things that you don't know that you don't know. And uh you could be like walking into a cliff or a trap and you don't even know it's a cliff or a trap.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Precisely.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Um which is I'm sure why you you're in such high demand.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

That's why I have a business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Um well let's talk about networking because in addition to advising businesses on their how how they grow, you're trying to grow your own business. I am. And uh um I guess tell me about your networking environments where you found some success and what you've done. Um, you know, what are some tips that you use?

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Well, I've tried a bunch of different rooms to be sure. And honestly, it was easier to find the rooms I didn't want to be in than the ones I wanted to be in. But uh I navigate, I just gravitate, sorry, towards the rooms where um people are more authentic. It's not a everybody's not super dressed up and they're not throwing their business cards out at literally everybody who walks past them. I I really am not interested in collecting business cards for a living. Um and that's part of the reason I joined NIA is after I visited it, it felt authentic. It was real people talking about real business, not people showing up to talk about um business theory or, you know, putting on the shoulds and being the person that has all the shoulds together. That's just not real. So that's that's where not where I want to be. I want to be in rooms with real people doing the real work.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

How how do you I I think probably hiring, like, oh, I need to hire people are struggling to get the right candidate. That's an easy end. Um but they're HR dumpster fires. Yeah. Uh people aren't posting that on social media, right? No. Um are they Googling you?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Are they a few, yeah, a few people are Googling me, and I'm really proud. There are a few other HR firms in northern Colorado. And um I'm the only one with Google reviews, I'm told, over and over again. And I have like 29 or 30 or so. So I'm proud of those.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Really cool. Um what's the s if somebody's having a situation, yes, uh, there's a dumpster fire actively raging, um, you know, the plumber would tell you, go please shut the water off. What would you tell somebody who is maybe in an active situation HR situation?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

So, first of all, there's not a lot of HR situations that are emergencies that have to be solved within that hour.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Nobody's bleeding. You know, if somebody's bleeding, it's workers' comp. Let's get them safe someplace safe, right? Um many times you can take a breath and wait until tomorrow morning to and you know, sleep on it, think about it, get together. No, don't do that. Um, the biggest emergencies, you can ask somebody to leave the property and tell them they are suspended, and that you will call them and tell them when they can come back to work. So dangerous situations, you feel like somebody's being threatening or it just too elevated and it this could get ugly. Just exit them from the building. Just say, you know what, I'm gonna pause. And then you can call me or somebody else. Um I don't don't trust Chat GPT, please, or Google. Um, there's too many intricacies in the law and per state, per city, all that. Um, but there's not a lot that can't we can't go. Let's just take a breath about an HR, right? Um, and then I do have an offering HR CPR that is made just for that, where people can get in a Zoom call or a phone call with an HR expert, and it's not just me on staff, uh, within 48 hours, 24 hours if you need it. Like we'll make we'll talk to you after work, we'll talk to you at 6 a.m. I've had those. And HRCPR is really designed for any size business and to be affordable. It's a flat $150 to get some expert advice and probably a form or you know, some piece of intellectual property. We're like, let me shoot you over a form that's you can use in your business. So make this easier and stuff like that. So that's why I created HRCPR. We're not making money on HRCPR. It's just a way for us to support our communities.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Well uh I imagine people are just like in in the HRCPR moments, just worked up, right? Like dug into their stories, or I'm right, or they're wrong. Yeah. Um how do you shield yourself from being caught up in the stories or feel like you taking sides, or how do you listen when somebody is just like amped up?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

First, both parties probably just want to be heard. So I can listen. Also, I've only been doing it for 32 years. So uh I did this for 26 years in corporate America, and you, you know, in that amount of time, you see a lot. Now I joke, we've seen it all. No, no, no. Emotional support snakes were not a thing when I worked at AAA, for example. Emotional support animals were not a thing. Um, so you know, there's always things that change, right? We hadn't been through a pandemic that changed a great deal. Um, but most people just want to be heard, and then I give advice and I can explain the law and the why, and then I give people choices. So one of my core values is I don't make decisions for my clients. I live with their decisions and sometimes I don't love them, but it is not my place to make a decision in a business. Um, it is my place to explain the law and the why and how these things play out.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Well, it's one thing to know the law, but then there's still evidence, right? So let's talk about documentation. Uh so like uh you know that that protects everybody when there's great documentation. So if you're an employee with things you should document, if you're an employer, where's some things you should document?

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah. Well, first of all, if you didn't document it, didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

And if you end up in front of a judge. Okay. Uh there's no he said, she said in a in front of a judge. So you're gonna want to document everything. And employees as well, they should be. And don't be afraid of documentation. Some employers are like, oh, I don't know. I I really I don't know about having a note taker in the meeting. I have a note taker in every meeting I'm in because I want a transcript. I'm not afraid of what we're gonna say. And employers that don't have HR backgrounds, they that, you know, what if I say the wrong thing? Well, you know, stay away from you know being a racist. But if you don't do that and you're just trying to find a solution and a workable solution, you're probably fine. So don't be afraid of documentation. It really does help. Even if you messed up on something, it can show intent and that you're trying to work in good faith and that you're trying to do your best to find it to accommodate whatever is happening. Um, but also be clear. I think um entrepreneurs can be conflict averse out of fear of saying something wrong, right? Employers. Um avoiding conflict usually creates more. Not being clear usually creates more conflict. So sometimes we don't want to say, if you don't longer do this, I will fire you. Right? Like you're giving somebody uh a final written or coaching on even the simple things like attendance or whatever. People are like, I don't want to be too clear on that because I don't want to imply that they can't ever be sick again. No, no, right. That's not right. implying, but we need you to do these things in this way or and this is how I say it, you will choose to no longer work here. Because if you do your HR processes properly, at the end of the day, if that employee leaves, it's their choice, not ours. And that makes it so much easier to sleep at night.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Having a choice was powerful. Well both ends.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Both ends. Everybody has choices. But as the employer, we're saying if you do this, I will do this. And and you have to do it. You should. Because then your word means nothing if you don't.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

But say the thing. Say it. Say you will no longer work here. Right. And and people don't want to.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

So what have you found, Tammy, has been your best referral partners or the people in networks that uh synergized with your business the best?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Uh primarily anybody who deals with other businesses finances, financial firms, um bookkeeping firms, payroll companies, because they all get HR questions and they don't know the answer or they know they shouldn't legally give too many too much advice there.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Talk to Tammy is the biggest takeaway.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

But they get questions that they don't feel comfortable answering. Yeah. And so I have a couple strategic partners that I have offered their entire staff a free answer from me for as much as they need it. Cust, you know, one of their customers for a bookkeeping firm has this question. It's around PTO and stuff. So they think they're going to ask payroll.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Oh sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

You know, and the bookkeepers like, oh this is not my thing. They can just say let me forward it to our HR lady and ask her and they get a free advice. I'm not going to ask for an appointment. I'm not going to hit the client up for anything. It just lets more businesses know I exist and hopefully I was helpful today. So that's how I approach those things.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

So where do you find those where are the right rooms where those people exist? You tell me hey there's rooms where I don't necessarily need to spend the time there. But um is is it a room or is it um specific relationships that you're building in one-off situations?

SPEAKER_01 24:05

I I you both um uh I I've I like a room that's not too too structured that's a but there's a little structured right I don't enjoy just a room of networkers because that's where people throw their business card in my face and walk away and cool how about we recycle that and then you're on their CRM and you're getting their email precisely. I I want to do both. I want to network well um and I as you know part of the reason I joined networking in action is I wanted to do it I needed to get more active that way right my referrals my business has been in place for eight years straight from client referrals and they're lovely. Love my clients when I say hey I haven't had a new Google review in a quarter can somebody throw out a Google review for me and they go Yeah and boom you know I get like three more Google reviews and that's great. So them explaining what I do is very helpful. And then these strategic partners is very helpful but also um I have to lean into the secret sauce. I'm the secret sauce.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Right? I have to be out there in the community and showing up as myself and being frank and saying the thing in a networking meeting when we're like sharing about our business, just being open and being like, hey that's the reality of doing business shows that I'm approachable that I'm not going to BS somebody that when you talk to me you're not talking to a corporate stuffed HR lady even though I was for a very long time. You gotta get yourself out there to say this is how I do business. Right. And in my work I'm the safe space for the business owner and the employee to talk.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

What about LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

I am not a fan. I know or people love it or hate it yes and I still pay my social media person to put my posts on LinkedIn it has not been a huge successful place for recruiting or for networking for me.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Interesting because I think a lot of job seekers or people are spending a lot of time on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Agreed and I think they have an excellent marketing department because they've got they have this reputation right and I'm not saying there's no value there. But I have had employers who just insist I want my jobs on LinkedIn only. Okay well you know here's my advice here's where I have better track records. And it doesn't matter the role I've had VP of finance roles I've had directors of an eight of a nonprofit go up and so I've I have tried LinkedIn for higher level positions and honestly had no better luck in them. So I I think it's a bit of a crapshoot and I would be lying if I pretended it wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Right. And um attorneys like looking for an attorney right with at least five years experience in their field um we put it on LinkedIn and I mostly get applicants from outside of the country wanting visas to come here.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

Basically and by the way we can't afford to do that. It takes six months to get that taken care of do you have time to fill your position and it can cost the business thousands of dollars too.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Wow so wow well Tammy I think people are watching this and they're internally thinking oh crap there is now more that I didn't know that I didn't know now it's stuff that I know that I don't know. But luckily they know that you are a thing in northern Colorado and they can get in in contact with you. So what's the best way for someone to uh either do a CPR session or maybe a less than CPR just a one-to-one or a consultation?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah and most of the socials I'm unicycle.consult so that's easy to find me if you Google Unicycle uh you'll get things about uh unicycling and the local unicycle mountain biking club and me that's what you'll get um but www.unicycle.consulting is my website there's no dot com or dot net and then hrcpr.net is the HRCPR site on both of them you can send me an email you can book uh an HRCPR on the Unicycle Consulting website you can book a free discovery call with me and get free advice my discovery calls are not sales pitches they're let's talk about you what your needs are I'm gonna help you and give you free advice because you don't know how good that feels till you feel it. I'm like I don't want to compare myself to a drug pusher but the first one's free. And then um uh and then we'll talk about your needs and you know I'll I can send people emails just showing what my price structure looks like different levels but we really are designed to support every business from I've had people hire me for their first employee um and I've had I have people hire me who have you know 85 employees.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

So well awesome uh you know if somebody's trying to grow their business whether it's hey I want to network with a HR professional or want to take the scary leap and start to hire and scale it's good to have an expert in the field. And Tammy uh really appreciate your knowledge what you shared today and uh look forward to networking with you around Northern Colorado. Yep you'll see me around hey all thanks for watching I love networking and building relationships with other Northern Colorado business leaders. So if you want to come meet some of these podcast guests meet me or meet some other amazing entrepreneurs in Northern Colorado I would love to have you attend one of our next events uh go in the podcast description there's a way so that you can see our upcoming schedule and maybe you could be a future podcast guest as well. Thanks.