SPEAKER_01 0:00

I like talking to customers. I like getting to know customers. I'm trying to find something to come in.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

All right, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Connections That Matter. My name is Andrew Johnson, and I love having conversations with Northern Colorado's best networkers. Today we got Thomas Kern from Kern Painting LLC on the show. Thomas, you have been networking a long time. Excited to have you uh shared today.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Yeah, I guess I have been. So uh yeah, it's 10, 15 years I've been networking off and on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Well, I a lot, you know, one of the things that I was like, that that analogy of when was the best time to plant an oak tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today. It's cool to see the people who are picking up networking and seeing the results they get. It's also really cool to see the people who've been networking for over a decade and where it's led to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Yeah, house painting, there was nobody networking when I started. Um and now when I go to a group, there might be three, four house painters, you know, owners networking now. So it's changed quite a bit. You know?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Really cool. Well, tell us about Kern Painting, um, because you're not your average painter. You uh you do some things that are very unique, uh very exceptional. And um tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Uh I started at 14 with a four-inch brush, oil paint, no tarps, exterior, go as fast as you can, do not drip. So I learned to clean up myself very fast. You did not let that drip, that oil paint, uh, rest at all because you had to clean it up. Um, and then I've been in, I grew up in Minnesota, so started there and then painted in Iowa and Michigan and Hawaii and Oklahoma and Alaska and yeah, I know, all over the place. Um, and uh just kept working with other painters, worked for somebody else, and then kept growing my business as I was going along. And it's a business of hard knocks, you know. Um, you learn as you go, no business degree, no, you know. And then when I needed something, I would go, okay, I need to learn this, so I go learn it, you know, constantly.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

How much has the painting business changed uh since back in the 14 when you were 14? I mean, the chemistry of paints changed quite a bit, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

That's changed a lot from oil to latex to really good latex paints to good there were good oil primers. Now all the solvents are gone. So now all the oil is really well is really kind of out, completely out. Um, as far as the business goes, it hasn't changed a lot. I'd say the demeanor of the contractors has changed a little bit. It's not so rough where they're throwing tools at you or swearing at you as much as they used to. Um that still comes up every once in a while. Um, but it hasn't changed a whole lot. Although we've gone from brush to roll to spray. That's been the tech the techniques have advanced a lot. And um the finishes have changed. They're much smoother finishes, um, stuff like that. Yeah, but as as far as contractors goes, they haven't changed a whole lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Is it is it uh is it as much about the paint or is it much about the the people? Like do you feel like it's a people business to work?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

It's a people business and it's a prep business. It's people because it's and it's about the customer service, it's about the people you uh are servicing and talking to them and educating them on what it is. They really don't they think because of the DYI, because of all those stores, they think that they can paint. And you know, you have to teach them, well, look, you need to do this step and this step and this step, and it's a lot of prep. And we cover the floors and we paper everything and we mask everything and we talk everything over and over. And our if we're we're touching the surface five or six times, every surface that we see, we're touching it over and over and over again. That's the education part. You need to teach them about that, you need to teach them that prices have gone up, that they won't ever go down. Um, and then uh finding the right people to do that, finding the right crews that understand that yes, we're detailing oriented, yes, we're going to have to slow down at the end of the job. So it's a I can't I just say I'm a teacher. I'm teaching people how to paint, how to handle the customer, and and most of them I say just make sure you talk to Thomas. They know what they're supposed to do, I know what I'm supposed to do. Talk to Thomas. And I I like talking to customers, I like getting to know customers, um, trying to find something in common with them. And in Colorado, a lot of them are from not originally from the state, or they are from the state, and you gotta find some commonplace with them. So that that that has changed a bit. Usually people just wanted you to paint. They just said, shake my hand, you're gonna do what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do what you're I say I'm gonna do, pay me at the end. That's what it used to be like, you know, and that's no longer yeah, very rare.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

So unless those long-term clients, though, that uh maybe it's still like that, right? The ones that you've come back to over and over again.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yes, I'll repeat customers, they know what I do, they know what I can do. They just say, Hey, do it, you know, um, tell me what it's gonna cost, you know, and then and then they also know that I'll come back to them and say, Hey, we found this. We moved your dresser drawers, and there's a big hole behind it, you know. Do you want it fixed? You know, um, so they know I'm gonna come back to them and talk to them. They know I'm gonna communicate with them. They know that, and so they can trust that. They know that I'm gonna keep doing the same thing over and over again. Consistency. People like consistency a lot. And it's hard to see nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Sure. So well, I was thinking about um, you know, networking for the trades, like any any business where you're actually in people's homes. So there's there's a different level of trust uh if I'm getting a referral. It's not just somebody uh tr transactions something. If I'm referring somebody, it's somebody that might come in there, or maybe their wife's at home or their kids are at home and uh bring somebody in there. Um talk to me about your referral partners and how you've gotten them to be able to recommend you over any of the other painting companies in northern Colorado.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Um they usually see my work. I think that's one of the things. They see how I do treat the customer. I consider every customer I meet in an interview, and I have to find something in common with them, and I have to relate to them, and so they can trust me coming in their home. I mean, we've had a number of customers that will like I have to be there. And I said, Well, that's fine if you feel comfortable. Um, but then the referral partners, they usually see our work or they usually get to know me. Um I know all my referral partners. We're doing a job right now that we just finished, and I had to call the electrician because the customer's exterior junction box and all the stuff was in a four by three paneled area with siding on it. And I'm like, oh, this is scary. And it had a piece of conduit coming in top, and you could see it was gonna leak in there. And so I called my electrician, and the customer, right? I was like, okay, this is the person you trust. I'm like, yeah, and we pulled that work and it's all illegal, it helps out completely redone. Um, but I he knew I know what I'm talking about, I know what I'm talking about. He knows I that I know his business, he knows my business. So that's a long-term thing. I've known that person for three years now. We've talked on the phone weekly, so he knows what I'm doing, and I'll tell him what I want, what I'm looking for. And he tells me what he's looking for all the time. And it's communication, it's constant. I'm constant talking to people. My wife is like, You're just love to talk to people. And I'm like, that's my job.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah. Well, how many of your clients, Thomas, like enjoy the work? Because I see a lot of people, they wait until they're about to sell the house, they're about to move out, then they go in and paint it. And it's like, whoa, they could have been living in it looking this nice.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Um, maybe they have the oak outdated cabinets and now they have the the ones that's gonna sell well. But um what do you see for like trends? Like when are people deciding to paint uh or um do you got a good mix of people who are updating versus trying to just do it for a real estate transaction?

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Um most people wait too long. Yeah. Most people they do. Um they wait exteriors, it's recommended every eight years. Uh it's average in cholera, it's 13. So usually there's replacement and they're they go in their garages, they don't walk in the front door. It's just the way people are. You know, you hit your good garage door button, you walk in, you don't you don't pay attention. My job. My job is to go see it. Um, they usually are waiting, they usually are selling. Yeah, they want to freshen it up. Um, when you're selling, as long as it's clean, you don't need to paint. And I walk through many houses with realers and say, look, ignore the ceilings, let's wash the baseboards or have somebody wash them. It's you know, and then we got this wall or this wall. So a lot of times it's waiting. Um some people are tired of the color, it's faded, they're tired of looking at that purple accent or that red accent wall, and they just want it gone. Or it's the opposite. They want an accent wall. Yeah, you know, I get called and say, Hey, can you do this accent wall for me? I'm like, Yeah, sure. And it doesn't matter how small or big the job is, we're happy to do it because you get to see our work. But they definitely wait unless it's a remodel and then they're, you know, it's part of the remodel process. Like we have one that's taking down all the popcorn ceilings and retexturing.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Talk to me about your uh pricing. I when I went into Sherwin Williams, I was amazed at like their builder grade A100 or whatever it is versus their top-of-the-line paint uh paint. The price point per gallon is significantly different. Yes. Um I would imagine there's some level of um, I know like on drywall, there's a level five finish where it's smooth with a lot more prep, a lot more stuff too. So there's a there's the product that you're putting on, and then there's also the the level of details that you're putting on. How do you match that to the client's expectations?

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Um I usually talk to them about the different grades of paint. And I say, okay, we don't do low quality paint. If that's what we want, you can, but I can't guarantee any of it. And I also say your sheen always needs to be eggshell on the walls or higher, like satin in the kitchens and bathrooms. Ceiling, you can go flat, and that's fine. Um, I always recommend a higher quality paint. I also give them the option of the top quality paint. And uh and the other thing I say to them is look, I'm not charging you the retail price. A lot of painters do. I know that they do. I'm not interested. I get the price I get is the price you get. So you get my contractor's price, and let's and what do you have? Like if you have a lot of children, yeah. We need something that you can clean well. Flat doesn't clean, mat matte finishes don't clean. Um this quality paint won't last you as long. So it depends on what you want. Do you want to have to paint again in two, three years? Um, then you're gonna you're gonna pay for it. I said, let's make it last. My job is to eliminate my job so you can just wash it uh and then you can be done. So I I always am going for let's do higher quality so you eliminate me coming back again. Because it's become expensive. Painting is expensive. Um and when I talk to people, they're like, your prices are reasonable, but it's expensive. I said, I know. I I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

There's nothing like a fresh coat of paint though to liven up a space or create different moods or environments.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

It makes a huge difference. People are so happy. And when I when I paint exteriors, I ask the customer, hey, did you drive past your house when we had it painted? And they're like, Yeah, I didn't even know it was there. So it makes a and it makes a huge difference on, and I'm more of a practical person, so I'm like, okay, now we know it's gonna last, your wood's not gonna warp, you're not gonna have issues with your cleaning your wood inside, you know, or cleaning the the doors, it's gonna just wipe right off. Um so I'm looking at that, but yeah, it makes a huge difference. People are so happy. We had a lady that that had her husband died uh many years ago, and she still had it moved on, and it was still really difficult for her. And we painted her in the interior house, and she was able to get rid of furniture and move on. It made a huge difference in her life. Now, that doesn't happen a lot, but it it sometimes I say I am a therapist, people do process things with the painting job.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah, it's really funny because I'm like, it's just paint.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

It's just paint, but I don't know, like you know, they come up with like pan tone colors of the year, like yeah, colors have meanings now. Like maybe it's deeper than I mean, Thomas. Like when I'm talking about colors, my box of crayons is like 16 colors. When my wife talks about crayons, she's got like one of those 256 box of crayons, knowing the right sheen, the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah, and I and in tone, I can tell tones, you know. So I'll say, Les, this is not gonna work with your fireplace, or it's not gonna work with your trim right now. Um, and what color of carpets you got going on, or if you're putting new carpets in, we need to check the color. And um a friend of mine 10 10 years ago said, Look, you're a color expert. You've been staring at color for 44 years, you're a color expert. So um, yeah, I am I do it does make a difference and it makes people happy to have the right color. It really does to them. And and that is a a bonus of painting for us. You know, if people love it and really enjoy it, that's a big bonus. And I will call people and say, hey, how'd your painting? What did you think? And how are things going? And they're like, I love the color. I just love the color. And I'm the process guy. I'm thinking about the process, how we tape, how we cock, how the lines, stuff like that. Is there enough coats on it? Did it cover well? That's because I'm the owner and that's my my job.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

You gotta stand behind the work. Yeah, and and especially in a referral sense, too. Obviously, you have your own business reputation, but it's not like you'd had one transaction. It's like you go to a restaurant, maybe had bad service. If you don't like your paint job, you're living in the house, you're seeing it consistently. Yes. Um, and so like that referral or that job well done lives on beyond the time of service.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yes, and that matters so much to me. I mean, I I'm a person who sees in pictures, I don't see in words. So I will wake up in the morning and go, oh shoot, that piece of tape wasn't taken off that window. And I have that picture in my head, and uh and it drives me crazy. And I'm like, because we're consistent, we big on consistent in our integrity. So I want to make sure everything looks fantastic, looks clean and even. And you look down the side of a wall, and if you can see a roller mark, I'm like, nope, we gotta fix that. So that makes a big deal to me. Uh yeah, it and and it's smooth, and I won't be any grit in it. I have a bad paint story every week. So I've people will come in and spray, and they'll spray without cleaning the floor, like it's a construction area, and it will push the grit and the dirt right into the baseboard, and it'll become like sandpaper. And we've gone into houses and re-sanded everything just to fix it. I call that fixing other people's problems. So, you know, which I don't mind doing, but it's a lot more work, it's a lot more labor.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

So let's talk about networking. Um, and so where are the arenas in northern Colorado that you're networking? What groups do you attend or uh meetups do you attend? Which ones would you recommend to other Northern Colorado business owners?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

We do networking in action is has been really good. And I've and I like the opening ones because we go to different places. I might meet a lot of different people. I call it the circuit. There's certain networking groups that you go to and you see the same people, and you go, I saw you yesterday. Hey, I said you yesterday. Um, so I really like those open ones. I've had um a lot of success at tabletop networking. Sure. Uh I found that a very good value. Uh also done. Um, I'm better with me, I'm better with the once-a-month ones, not the every week ones. Those are hard. As a house painter, you get a call, they need paint, or you get a call, or a customer wants to you to look at something, you know, hey, we found a problem. So be or we we just want to meet you, you know. Can you come down? I want to go through this, you know. So those once a month help me better. Um so then also sure networking is a local one in northern Colorado that's been really good. Um, a lot of people there, a lot of different um things. Um, there was one other I was thinking about, but um, those are three that I do really well in, I think really well. Um, but again, it's developing the relationship. Yeah, it takes time. You know, you gotta put a year or two in before you sometimes you see any results because you gotta develop that relationship. Oh, level up networking. Oh, yeah. I spoke there the other week um for my other business, and that was a lot of fun. Um, yeah, I really enjoyed it, and the group enjoyed it. So that's what's fun.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Well, this like the tabletop or the next level events that we do, there's a speed networking component to them, right? Yes. Uh little mini one-to-one, a little tease. So, what is your approach to leave a good impression on the person that you're networking with? And then what do you like to see if you're paired up with somebody that somebody else could do that would land really well with you?

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Well, I always shake their hand. I think that's important. I think it's uh it's interesting. And sometimes I make a funny about, oh, give me a little harder grip, shake my hand a little harder. I mean, so that's kind of my introduction, and I ask them what they do. Um, and I always try to find out something we have in common, you know, so that helps. Or um um and then try to get them to tell me about themselves. I want a little bit of information, and I hold on to at least one detail. So when I see them the next time, I bring up that detail. Um, I know I have one in my head for you that I always bring up every single time. Um because that means that you're paying attention and that you care a little bit about what their life is like. So you're not just going, oh, hey, oh, hey, I'm uh a painter. Here's my card, here's my card, here's my card, you know. Um so there are tons of painters out there, you know. There are there are painters, you know, you see them all day. So what makes me unique? Am I paying attention to you? You know. Um and if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. I understand. Um I don't take it personal. I'm like, okay, let's go move to the next one. But I think learning something about that person is is always good. I mean, you learn all kinds of crazy stuff that you didn't even expect.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Some people are bodyguards for people, or they were, you know, they did um before this life, they ran a bar. And I'm like, really? Okay. No clue that I that had people are interesting. You just gotta dig a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah. So who are you seeking out at these events? Are there other people in the trades, real estate industries, or are you open to a wide variety of professionals?

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Um, I will talk to anybody. I have no problem with that. I mean, my my best are roofers, property managers, realtors. Those um property managers are repeat business, you know. If we can get them, I've done this for so long. I know how to work the process so they're not doing a hundred buildings at once, you know, do a couple every year that maintains them, slows down your cost, all that. So I those are who I look for. Oddly enough, every once in a while there'll be someone that just refers me a lot, and it'll be a chiropractor. You know, and I'm like, how'd how'd that happen? You know, I mean, other than I can think that they're they see a lot of people every day. Sure, you know. Um, one of my best repeat clients was from a chiropractor. Um, she still calls me. I saw her. The other day, and she's like, you know, we need to do some more touch up. So um, you know, I'm just I'm open to anybody. Um, that's our, you know, but the trades obviously are a plumber, you know, they're gonna cut holes in walls. All electrician is gonna cut holes in walls, they're gonna need the drywall, they're gonna need the texture, they're gonna need the painting. So that's covers about all of them.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Is uh how much a painting is planned? I mean, I've had some of my rentals all of a sudden, like a condensate line, and I get some water damage, they gotta pull things out, dry it up, and then fix it. And all of a sudden I'm painting again, right? It's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

The last minute calls, the we hurry up, we need you now. Realtors, realtors, property managers, pretty much all the time. Um, residentials a little less, they think they need it done right away, and then they see the price or whatever, and then they're like, okay, we're gonna wait a little while. And I'm like, okay, that's fine, whatever. Um, but yeah, private matchers you usually need it within a couple of days. Um, and we're able to handle that because I have three crews right now, and during the summer I have six. So it's not that's not a problem. That's a unique thing. Labor's not a problem for me. I can get the crews, we can get them set up. Um that's never never an issue. You know, that's never an issue now. Um but yeah, the last minute jobs, those are fun. They're they're funny because also because sometimes it's not as big a problem as they lead you onto, or it's it's a larger problem because I see all that. I mean, after 40 figures I can see, oh, okay. All right, so it's leaking. All right, this is an interior room. It's traveling up in your roof line. We need to go look and see where it's actually coming from. It can travel along a two by six on the slope and then drip on the inside of the room.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Yeah, so you gotta it's it's learning how the structures work and and paying attention to that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Well, let's do a networking deep dive. I would love to find a story of someone you've met networking, how you've been able to develop the relationship and what you do to keep that relationship uh strong.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Okay, so that's my electrician that I call all the time. Um you want to give him a shout-out?

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Oh, sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Bob, Bob, Bob, Dunham. He's Dunham Electrical Edge. Yeah, he's in Greeley. Yeah, Bob's Bob's great. That's the one with the the house with the electrical issues. Um I um yeah, I call him all the time for electrical problems.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

You know, how did you first meet him?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Oh, through a networking, okay. Uh Master Networkers, that was the once a month, once a week one that doesn't work for me. But um, I met him there. Um, then he hits the circuit. So I'd seen him a lot in the circuit, and I had him work on my house first. You know, I test people out. I have them work on my house first. Um, I can't tell you how many tile people I've been through before I found one that I I like. Um, so um I test him out. They did good work, they picked up after they were done, they put tarps done, they followed up, you know. Um they checked in with me as the job was going on. All those details make a huge difference for me. And I try to stay out of the way. I don't like to be around if I can help it because I know how that is. I've had customers sit in an armchair and watch us paint. Oh, geez. Literally sit in an armchair and watch us paint the whole job. I think it was two weeks. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So um, Bob's crews are really professional, they do all that, you know, uh really in and like I said, follow-up calls.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

We we contact, we communicate. I am big on communication. I over-communicate, um, as you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Well, I think that's good insight because like in a networking setting, maybe there's not an opportunity to refer or watch them do business, but you you start to build trust. You start to see how they show up, you start to get to the point where you could make that recommendation to, and I think it's also really smart that you highlight it, network with people who are in the circuit.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

The because the circuit, the the people who are out putting themselves out there networking, that they're good listeners. They're they're hearing different things. So if you can get close to the people who are networking on a higher level or more consistently, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Well, Richard Ross is one of those people. He's a CPA, right? Account. That's a person I would highly recommend and not had him do any work for me. I've asked him a couple tax questions, um, but he's been easy to answer. He says, not a problem, I'll answer any question, not a big deal to me. Um, he has a lot of knowledge about taxes. I asked him a question the other day, and I was like, okay, here we go, the deep dive. We're gonna really go into this one. So that's a person I could easily recommend that I've never had any work done. Because again, circuit, I've seen him a lot in a different lot of networking events. Um, I've got to know him a little bit, and I can tell that he's you can easily trust him. And dealing with payroll and taxes and bookkeeping, bookkeeping, that's that's hard to trust people to do that. I don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Well, who are you who are you looking to meet these days, uh, Thomas, when you're out there networking? Um, any specific connections that you're looking to solidify or nail down?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

I'm looking for more custom builders. I don't do new construction. I'd like some more custom builders. That's a big one. Um, then you can work individually with them, um, build a relationship, which takes almost a year when you're working through a job. You gotta find all the ins and outs and stuff like that. But that's I'm looking for custom builders right now and property managers always.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Right on. Well, if you are a custom builder, if uh maybe you're looking around, watching this podcast and looking at your house a little differently, seeing some things that have maybe want to freshen up. Um how can people get a hold of you? How can people um connect with you if they need want to hire you or network with you?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Well, I'd love for them to call or text me, you know, me 970-444-5003. I always will take the phone call. If I don't answer, I will call you back. Sure. And I get that every week. Someone will say, Oh, I'm so glad you called me back. I've called five painters and no one's answered.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

I do that. I that is my communication. I call you back, I talk to you, um, or text me. I mean, you can reach me through the website or email, but I like to talk to people. I have no problem answering your questions. That's an opportunity for me to say, hey, what are you looking for? What do you want? Do you need a fresh coat of paint? Are you selling it? Are you buying it? You know, what has been done? What hasn't been done? Are you in the middle of the process? Did you paint half a wall and realize this was too hard and you need our need my help? You know, and that I'll take that job. I'm not uh that doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

So well, right on, Thomas. This was a great conversation. Really appreciate it. Uh yeah, I've really enjoyed networking with you, watching how you communicate, how you show up uh in the network, and really like to see your quality of work. It stands out amongst some of the other stuff that we see. So uh we'll see you around Northern Colorado and thanks for coming on, Connections That Matter.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Thank you so much for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Hey all, thanks for watching. I love networking and building relationships with other Northern Colorado business leaders. So if you want to come meet some of these podcast guests, meet me or meet some other amazing entrepreneurs in Northern Colorado, I would love to have you attend one of our next events. Uh go in the podcast description. There's a way so that you can see our upcoming schedule. And maybe you could be a future podcast guest as well. Thanks.